Lake Erie Conservative

thoughtful discussion(s) about issue(s)

Posts Tagged ‘Right of self-defense’

… Smart Move by Illinois State Police [#right of self defense]…

Posted by paulfromwloh on Wednesday,July 30th,2014

.. at least someone in Illinois is using their thinking cap .

.. hopefully , soon – to – be former Gov. Quinn & Company will keep their hands off of this . It will save them a great deal of grief in court cases and court costs …

.. [h/t — TruthRevolt]..
.. [link] to the blog article …

.. what was originally done was that Concealed Carry permit applicants were turned down , and not given a reason . Someone should have known better . At least the State Police is thinking , I hope …

concealed carry photo

.. what will be done now is that , if one is turned down for a C.C.L. license , then they will be given a reason . That reason will , presumably , give the person the jurisdiction or location who is sticking their nose in the works . It will then give them a fairer chance and a lot less grief over the process …

.. most folks are of limited means . They usually have good reason for a C.C.L. license . When they are turned down , they should be told . Nowadays , they can get help from various gun – rights groups that will be set up in a position to help the public with the bureaucratic maze in Illinois …

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… Yes , Joe , Trayvon was Armed … with his fists , his superior position , and concrete …

Posted by paulfromwloh on Wednesday,July 24th,2013

.. GZ and being the Aggressor ..

.. Of course , that is not what happened. We know for a fact that the verbal confrontation became a physical confrontation at some trayvon martinpoint .

.. George Zimmerman asserts that Trayvon sucker – punched him , and that the initial strike broke his nose . We only have George ‘ s word for that . Fortunately for George , we also have the witness , John Good . Frankly, even this carries little weight in relation to the self-defense law of this case. Nothing up until this point carries much weight , because nothing either man had done up until this point remotely approaches deadly force .

.. Self-defense law isn’t relevant through the scramble for position that takes the men away from the “T” intersection, and to the eventual positioning of Trayvon Martin mounted upon George Zimmerman. Up until this point, Trayvon Martin was possibly guilty of felony battery, but he had not done anything justifying a lethal-force response . The felonly battery charge comes from the sucker punch .

.. A punch may well be considered deadly force to a reasonable jury . The first punch does not constituate deadly force . Only after Trayvon Martin had firmly established a mounted position of control dominating George Zimmerman did it become deadly force . Then , and only then , the actions of Trayvon Martin against George Zimmerman start building a legal justification for the use of deadly force.

.. When Trayvon first bounced Zimmerman’s head off the concrete by either punching his head and driving it into the concrete, or by

... george zimmerman  ...

… george zimmerman …

more intentionally grabbing his head and smashing it against the concrete, the very first blow — no matter how hard the strike — was the legal justification for the use of deadly force. Self-defense law is not predicated upon sustaining injuries. In another circumstance, you would not have to wait for someone wielding a knife to finally stab you, or allow a man with a gun to keep shooting at you until he finally makes a hit before you respond. Trayvon Martin’s first attempt to slam George Zimmerman’s head into the concrete was assault with a deadly weapon, whether he successfully connected or not.

We know from the testimony of eyewitness John Good and George Zimmerman and the botched identification of Jane Surdyka that Trayvon Martin was the “final aggressor” in this conflict. He had established a powerful dominant position that left George Zimmerman nearly defenseless. Trayvon Martin was able to deliver punishment at will, and chose to use concrete, a deadly weapon.

.. He refused to stop , as George Zimmerman offered no effective resistance  . He refused to stop as George Zimmerman screamed for help. He refused to stop when  John Good told him to stop .

.. Zimmerman felt he was about to potentially lose consciousness with the next strike of his head against concrete . He had no neighbors around him refusing to offer any assistance at all, George Zimmerman must have felt something like Kitty Genovese, who was stabbed to death over a period of time in Queens, New York, in 1964 as her neighbors ignored her cries for help.

.. Fortunately for him, George Zimmerman had one advantage over Kitty Genovese. He had a pistol tucked into a black nylon holster inside the waistband of his pants, just behind his right hip. He either twisted to his left a small amount or raised his hips in a maneuver known as a “bridge” just long enough to slip his hand into his holster and to draw his pistol. Forensic pathologist Vincent Di Maio — who wrote the book Gunshot Wounds used by pathologists and medical examiners — says the evidence shows Trayvon Martin was still in an attacking position when George Zimmerman tucked his elbow against his body and fired his gun one time as it touched Trayvon Martin’s shirt.

.. So , Joe Scarborough , Trayvon  Martin was the aggressor , not George Zimmerman . He had established the dominant position . Martin was using his advantages (his fists , his physical position , and the concrete) to his advantage . He hada to change the situation . he had the legitimate reason to use  deadly force — and he did .

[here] is Joe Scarborough ‘ s video commentary [h/t  — RealClearPolitics] , and

[here] is Sean Hannity ‘ s response [h/t –RCP]

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